Christelle and Bertrand Pissavy-Yvernault: "Unlike Franquin, the public has a rather superficial idea of ​​Roba's 'leg'"

The complete Rombaldi collected the volumes in a non-chronological way

Apart from the collections initiated by Rombaldi in 1991 (and which did not publish the albums in chronological order), there had never yet been a complete Boule et Bill as such. Was it necessary to convince Mr. Boulier, the accountant of the Dupuis editions, that there was a sufficient public for this integral, of ten volumes?

Bertrand Pissavy-Yvernault: It's true that so far, the Dupuis integrals have mainly favored the series of adventures to follow. Perhaps the format of gags in a page, by its repetitive format, lends itself less to the formula of the integral. Moreover, Boule et Bill is a very mainstream series, which we thought - wrongly - that it had been exploited to the limit for decades. However, while working on the monograph L'Art de Roba, we realized that the albums had only taken up part of what had been published in the Journal Spirou and that there were still quite a few unpublished works: plates, newspaper covers, cartoons, stories, advertising gags, title banners, etc. This could bode well for a complete album likely to interest Roba fans by offering them real bonuses compared to traditional albums.

Christelle Pissavy-Yvernault: I would add that the series has against it being a huge success. In the minds of many, Boule et Bill is this imposing business machine, and this has totally obscured the subtlety of this series, the richness of Roba's art. Therefore, that Roba enters the heritage and that Boule and Bill benefits from an integral, it was not obvious. And yet!

You have been working on Roba for a long time, as we have seen, with the publication of L'Art de Roba but also with L'Avis de Chien in 2019, forgotten on the occasion of the anniversary of the series. Why does this first volume of this integral appear after these two previous works?

BPY: As I was explaining to you, it was precisely the research carried out to prepare L'Art de Roba that convinced us of the merits of this edition.

CPY: Unlike Franquin, who has been the subject of many publications that have won the loyalty and maintained his readership, Roba has a popularity, or an attraction, that we still know little about. There have been very few books on him, and we have a rather superficial idea of ​​his "paw". Publishing L'Art de Roba was already a big step in recognizing his talent, and the full release of Boule et Bill is an extension of this approach.

During your research, you came across an unpublished gag by Roba (the famous plate 14): can you tell the readers more about it?

BPY: When we prepare a new integral, we tend to approach collectors of originals in order to enrich our iconography. What was our surprise when we learned that one of them had a plate that had never been published, neither in the journal nor in an album. It seems that this plate was lost between Roba's workshop and the editorial office or the printing press. Probably lost in the postal sorting... But not lost for everyone! Still, following this loss, Roba drew another gag bearing the same number to which he added the mention “bis”. And no one has heard of this front page anymore. When he acquired it, our collector showed it to Roba, who couldn't remember!

CPY: In making an inventory of all the published plates, I noticed that a good number of them are numbered “bis”, like this famous plate 14 restarted. Suddenly, the question is whether, each time, they do not hide an unpublished page...

The famous board 14

This first volume has a very beautiful unpublished file, first composed of a dozen pages of documents before beginning the narration of the creation of Boule and Bill.

CPY: What we call “The American Intro”, a process that we sometimes use when we have beautiful material that wouldn't fit in the preface. We did it again recently for the complete Mademoiselle Louise, by Salma and Geerts, which comes out in September. I really like this type of pre-introduction: it allows a first contact with the work, in silence, like the calm before the storm!

BPY: Like many illustrators of very successful series, Roba was probably not recognized for his talent during his lifetime. Morris or Uderzo no doubt went through a similar form of purgatory, before being celebrated too. And then, over the years, Boule and Bill have been advertised a lot, which may have tarnished their image, so that Roba's work was not viewed as it should be. We really wanted to show what a wonderful graphic designer he was. He is from this generation of authors whose fame has been overshadowed by that of his characters.

Excerpt from the American intro of this first collection

Hence the opportunity to publish some little-known curiosities such as La Route des Trois Clés.

CPY: We were only able to publish a single page of this Three Keys Route in L'Art de Roba because publishing it in its entirety would have broken the reading rhythm. Here, we finally had the opportunity to show it, it found its rightful place. It's as simple as that, our choices to publish documents or not: a narrative logic that also exists in iconography. And this complete collection is a real godsend for publishing everything that has been identified so far apart from the gags. Line up 1153 gags in a row, what a bore! Here, all these unpublished (illustrations, pubs, chronicles, posters, etc.) will come to punctuate and awaken the reading! So, yes, we are not going to deprive ourselves of integrating all the unpublished works that come to hand. It is this material that gives meaning to our integral.

BPY: We are also continuing research in private collections, which sometimes reveal real unknown nuggets. If some collectors have unpublished drawings, do not hesitate to contact us.

In your introduction, you describe in detail the beginnings of Jean Roba, which were not easy despite the innovation and talent he already demonstrated.

BPY: Unlike most of his contemporaries, Roba started quite late in comics. He had a job before since he was previously an advertising designer and ran a small agency in Brussels, for which he developed a number of campaigns. This is how he acquired various techniques, and was able to move from illustration to realistic drawing, cartoon, calligraphy etc. But he dreamed of comics and drew boards in the evening, for his pleasure.

CPY: What was interesting to tell in its beginnings, it is to see how much a career does not hold much. If there had been only Charles Dupuis, Roba would have remained in advertising, and it is indeed the demonstration of the complex organization of the Dupuis editions which, with its two-headed management in spite of itself (Charles Dupuis/Georges Troisfontaines), allowed to open up comics to various authors.

Was it thanks to Maurice Rosy and the World Press that Roba was able to break into Spirou? They had a major role in the growth of the newspaper.

BPY: It was probably a conjunction of events and encounters that led Roba to Spirou. Contrary to what one might think, Yvan Delporte or Charles Dupuis were not necessarily the first interlocutors of a designer who came to report to the editorial staff. Maurice Rosy indeed received the applicants and we owe him for having immediately hired Roba, whose possibilities jumped out at him. And among the opportunities available to newcomers, there was notably the production of Belles Histoires de l'Oncle Paul, produced by the World Press of Georges Troisfontaines. I believe that the American touch of Roba's design could only seduce Troisfontaines. This type of work made it possible to test the designers, before entrusting them with more personal and larger-scale work. And Rosy and Troisfontaines were certainly major players in the growth of Journal Spirou, of which they certainly contributed to forging the graphic contours through their choices.

CPY: This part of the story was really very pleasant to tell because, precisely, it made it possible to detail the mechanisms in place which allowed Maurice Rosy (the armed wing of Troisfontaines that he himself had installed in the house!) to launch authors. It is an opportunity that we had never really had before and which has imposed itself here because Roba is precisely a textbook case. It's always amazing to see how many, like The Road of the Three Keys, for example, there are stories that can only be detailed in a certain context. Always because of logic. You have to be able to wait for the right moment to say certain things.

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Fortunately, the newspaper's cartoonists were quick to welcome Roba as one of their own. We think in particular of his work with Franquin on Spirou and Fantasio.

CPY: It's clear that Roba has been heavily influenced by advertising throughout his career: everything about him is very graphic, starting with the mock-ups of his album covers, title pages and other illustrations. And then, you have to see how wonderfully he knew how to tell a story in very few images, everything was very visual with him.

BPY: Roba never stopped proclaiming the debt he owed to Franquin. He had spotted his first publications and immediately thought of him when it came to setting up a small team to produce new episodes of Spirou and Fantasio intended for the Parisian Liberated: Tembo taboo, Spirou and the bubble men and Small Formats. While he was almost self-taught, Roba was able to benefit from accelerated and on-the-job training with the most illustrious teacher there is: Franquin! The first years of Boule and Bill will be very marked by this apprenticeship.

CPY: But it is clearly in Boule et Bill that his creativity was able to explode, even if La Ribambelle is for some his great success. You have to see how quickly he frees himself from Franquin and creates his own codes, how his style is set up. His page constructions are very personal. Roba is the art of conciseness, rhythm and readability!

However, you say that Rosy had to use tricks to impose Roba as a full-fledged author?

BPY: Curiously, Roba was not in the odor of sanctity with Charles Dupuis, who had the final decision on all projects. Roba was then a man from advertising, elegant and dandy, and he exploded within the editorial staff. Rosy, who was convinced of his talent, indeed set up a subterfuge to impose him in the pages of the newspaper at a time when all his projects were systematically refused. He scripted a page of Boule et Bill for him and integrated it into the model of the issue to be published, without mentioning the name of the author. Charles Dupuis was seduced by this page, said so and, once the designer's name was revealed, he could not back down and was forced to publish it!

CPY: He was well caught!

You also explain how The story of The Mini-Sharks is ultimately a "false start" for Roba?

BPY: Boule et Bill appear today as the emblematic gag series of Belgian comics. But that was not the case at all originally. Roba had indeed camped his characters but groped to define the formula of their adventures. First there was a mini-story, then the project of a second, which remained unfinished, then a complete story. It will pass nine months between the appearance of the characters in the newspaper and the systematization of the format of the gag in a board. And in the meantime, Roba will multiply the illustration work for the Dupuis publications, in particular Good evenings, and the projects, refused. He first considered series to follow but it was then difficult to find an untapped genre in the pages of Spirou. Each hero occupied a very defined place: western, aviation story, buccaneer, thriller, etc. It is perhaps to circumvent this that Roba had the genius idea to animate a little boy and his cocker spaniel - who looked like two drops of water to his own son and his dog - in daily chronicles. The two characters ultimately appear as sorts of antiheroes, in their own way.

Does the fact of going from a long-term story (Les Mini-Sharks) to Poisson vole (4 pages) before arriving at the gag, show that Roba gradually had to find his way before identifying the format who suited him best?

CPY: Exactly, and that's the whole point of this strictly chronological edition because it allows readers to be able to follow the evolution of the series, in its narrative construction, its subjects, etc., but also in its parallel development with the move from headlines to illustrations, to "Bill's Dog Notice" chronicles, and so on.

BPY: Charles Dupuis was not at all a fan of one-page gags in those years. Gaston certainly already existed but it was then more of a stopgap than a real established series. When it came to studying the project of gags of Boule and Bill, Mr. Dupuis had moreover predicted to him that it would be difficult for him to renew himself and that he would not go beyond a fifty boards!

Franquin's influence was also noticeable in the first years that you unfold, from the artistic evolution in the style of Roba... to the character of the father of Boule...

BPY: In fact, the first model of “Boule et Bill is perhaps Modeste and Pompon, whom Franquin was drawing for the Journal Tintin when Roba was working alongside him. There are many similarities between the two series during the early years.

CPY: There is indeed the "profile" of the father of Boule which is surprisingly close to that of Modeste, but there is also the house with the small garden, the furniture influenced by Scandinavian design, and above all, the construction of the stories . He willingly borrowed from Franquin the departures of gags: the father/Modeste slumped in a deckchair or a sofa, busy reading quietly, and then the three nephews of Félix/Boule and Bill tumble. The rapprochement is striking, and it is clear that it was only a stepping stone for him.

Very quickly, the universe of the series drifts towards something very personal. So personal that his gags are inspired by real situations, with people around him who really existed and whom he features in their own roles… Reading Boule and Bill from this angle is very amusing. We discover in his gags many events that he experienced, the most upsetting of which remains the disappearance of his wife Loulou, who was embodied in the series by Boule's mother. His death is evoked in a very modest, poetic way, and you have to know the context to guess that it is a tribute full of love to his wife, who was his main support in this adventure, for more than forty years.

Last notable element in this evolution of the first years, the transfer of the realization of the banners from Franquin to Roba?

BPY: Franquin was then the absolute star of the newspaper but he went through a very delicate period in the early 1960s, no doubt a victim of overwork. He even had to interrupt the production of an episode of Spirou and Fantasio, QRN sur Bretzelburg, for many months, for health reasons, as well as the production of most of his work for the newspaper.

Roba, with his advertising background, his sense of slogan and composition, naturally appeared as an obvious recourse, probably supported by Franquin. The headbands he made each week on the bow of Spirou operated in a very different way from Franquin. These were very symbolic and graphic illustrations, which allowed the reader to recognize the front-page hero at a glance. It's a wonderful time for newspaper covers.

You took care to collect all the headboards and the covers that Roba made in connection with Boule and Bill, I imagine that it was essential for a complete worthy of the name. Even when they were produced only for Robbedoes, the Flemish version of the newspaper?

BPY: This is one of the difficulties of these integrals. We want to be exhaustive but the Journal Spirou then had three different editions: the Belgian edition, the French edition and the Flemish version. Each had its particularities, its differences and certain pages or drawings only appeared in one version or the other, which complicates our task. An oversight is always possible! We thus discovered that Roba had made a different title banner for Robbedoes. It is the drawing that makes the cover of this volume.

Drawings were also made especially for the Flemish version of Journal Spirou

How often will you publish the next volumes of the complete?

CPY: We would like to publish them at the rate of one every ten months. The surprises that we will integrate will depend on the material that we will have available. We're firing on all cylinders and here, no doubt you've noticed, we've even used the culs-de-lampe and quotes that appeared at the top of the pages of the first albums. It doesn't seem like much, said like that, but it adds to the feeling of richness and abundance of this volume...

You are working on volume 3 of The True History of Spirou, do you have other works in preparation?

BPY: There are a lot of desires but sometimes time is lacking. For example, we recently completed a commented version of Spirou et les petits formats, of Franquin and... Roba, which will be published soon. Another large-scale project is currently occupying us, which it is still too early to talk about, but we can already say that it will be a comic strip, produced by a duo of authors, which takes up certain heroic episodes of The True History of Spirou, to which we are particularly attached.

CPY: And then yet another project about which we can't say anything yet, and then also the continuation of the complete series already started... It's busy, huh!

Interview by Charles-Louis Detournay.